FROM THE CHANTELS TO MILFORD GRAVES

     

 

Does the name Joe Rigby ring any bells ? You may have seen him playing without knowing it. Maybe at a wedding in Brooklyn, or perhaps on a cruise liner sailing  out of Miami. On the other hand, if you'd seen him playing with Milford Graves, you'd most certainly remember.

    

Milford may not perform in public very often, but every single gig is an unforgettable experience. And Joe has been by his side, on and off since the 60's. Milford has  always believed in connecting with his audience. In a way, that's not unrelated to playing for the people on a cruise. But Milford's performances are a little more unpredictable ! His forays into the crowd, the atomic blasts from his enormous multi-coloured drum-kit. His hand signals, switching on and off the intense screaming from his side-men, usually 2 saxophonists. Usually Joe Rigby and his alter-ego Hugh Glover. Playing music which at first shocks, then overwhelms, and finally converts the audience. Hugh providing a raucous bridge between Joe's often stratospheric sounds and Milford's earthy dynamism.

   

But it's not only music that links Joe and Milford. "I met Milford in my junior year of high school, although we went to different schools. We had a mutual friend who had an idea of forming a social club of guys primarily to meet girls. That was the birth of the Zeusinians. I was the only non-jock. Everyone else was very athletic, including Milford, who was on his school's track team, as were most of the Zeusinians." Milford remembers Joe, who is well over 6 feet tall, as "a great high jumper", and thought "we were the hippest cats in New York with our blazers !".

    

Joe remembers their first musical gig together "was a Latin gig where I was playing flute, and Milford was one of 4 percussionists. I couldn't hear myself on flute, and that might have started my interest with the tenor sax."

    

 

But let's begin at the beginning. Born in Harlem on September 3, 1940, Joe is a Virgo. His family history is fascinating. "My mom's name was Catherine Fedder Harding. Her father, my grandfather, was the illegitimate son of President Warren Harding. My mom was born in New Bern, North Carolina. My father, Joseph Benjamin Rigby, was born in Haiti. His father was Haitian and his mother was Dominican. The word is that my father came to the U.S. with his mother, where they met an Englishman named Rigby and adopted the name. I've two sisters from my father's first marriage, but they aren't musical to my knowledge."

     

Joe, however, began music young. "My first musical memory was playing at a piano recital when I was 6 years old. I wasn't too bad !" There were lessons at the New York Schools of Music with a Mrs.Fuchs for 35 cents a time. Joe's father loved jazz. "He played boogie woogie piano by ear. I don't think he was too happy when, as a teenager, I was into R'n'B. I was in the neighbourhood where a lot of R'n'B acts started, like the Moonglows, the Chantels, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, the Valentines, the Charts, the Paragons, the Harptones and Leslie Uggams. I played piano for the Chantels. We won 3 Apollo amateur nights. If you won 4, you got a week's engagement. The fourth week they threw a young Jerry Butler at us and we lost !"

    

But there was a lot of jazz in the house and Joe remembers hearing Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Meade Lux Lewis, Art Tatum and Frank Sinatra. The Sugar Hill section of Harlem where he lived was also home to Duke Ellington and most of his band, as well as Count Basie and Billie Holiday. "And Billie Strayhorn stayed for about 2 years in my aunt's house. Dad also worked on the Pennysylvania Railroad as a waiter at a time when most people rode the rails, so he met the celebrities of film and music."

    

Surrounded as he was by music, it's no surprise Joe was smitten. "I went to high school at Power Memorial at the same time as Lew Alcindor, later known as Kareem Abdul Jabbar and soon to become a New York [basketball] legend. When I walked there, I would often hear Thelonious Monk practicing the piano because he lived near the school." It was there that Joe picked up the flute and played with the marching band and orchestra, "so the piano was out ! I was drawn to the saxophone because I had started playing flute and then I heard such great saxophonists as Johnny Griffin, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane and Johnny Hodges, and I decided I'd be better on saxophone. My best friend Paul Kappes also played tenor sax. This was after high school, but he didn't play professionally. Around 1965 he moved to Mexico where I heard he became a drug dealer and a millionaire. Anyway, there was a music store on 48th. Street in Manhattan called Jimmy's. I was able to try 5 Selmer tenor saxes and make my choice. During the Beatles' invasion, the store stopped selling wind instruments and concentrated on selling guitars. The owner made a lot of money and moved to Florida. I played the clarinet before the saxophone, and traded it when I got my tenor. I wasn't very good as I recall."

     

"At that time, other musicians I was listening to included Sonny Stitt, Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, Lee Morgan, Art Blakey, Lennie Tristano, Paul Chambers, Horace Silver, Cannonball Adderley, Bill Evans and Miles Davis." 

     

But it was one musician above all others who inspired Joe. "I knew I wanted to be an improvising musician when I heard John Coltrane with the Miles Davis sextet at the Apollo Theater. He was playing harmonics, and the crowd actually booed him. I thought he was fantastic, and wanted to play a saxophone like him."

    

This was the start of a long journey. "Improvising is very hard work, and I don't think I got it naturally. It's a part of your life's experiences, and I've had a long and interesting life. I've lived in New York all my life. I've been married 3 times, and I have 4 sons and 2 grand-children." Fortunately for Joe, "my wives were all very supportive of my musical career. It was my womanizing that they didn't like. Old age, or better yet maturity, has kind of changed that!".

      

In a time of civil rights agitation, there was little enthusiasm for America's colonial pursuits. "I was in an age sense too old for Vietnam, but I was drafted during the Korean War. I got married to keep from going in. I was also going to live in Canada, and had met a family I was going to stay with, but it didn't come to that."  

     

Unfortunately, it was impossible to survive from music alone. "Through the years, to support my family, I've been a postal letter carrier, a bus driver, a United Parcel carrier, a liquor salesman, a New York City taxi driver, a garment buyer, and a nursery school teacher. Then I was a music teacher for the New York Board of Education for 14 years until I retired in 2004."

     

"The most relevant thing about my artistry is that I've had a fantastic life, and I hope when people hear me they can get a little, actually a lot, of my life experience in my tone. My tone on my respective instruments is what makes me, me. I developed my own approach primarily because Milford Graves was my friend, and he was always searching himself. I learned from him."

    

But Joe Rigby played a significant part in Milford's development too. Milford remembers how "I didn't get into jazz until 1962. It was John Coltrane who did it. There was this place out here on Merrick Road called Copa City. A little Queens club. Joe was a Trane man. He said 'hey man, get your head out of the sand, the greatest saxophone player who ever lived is playing out in Queens, right by your house, and the greatest drummer is with him.'  We went down there, young guys, got a front seat. That was the first time I ever saw Elvin Jones, he was so loose ... and I said to myself, that's it. I went out and bought myself a trap set."

    

Milford played some gigs with Giuseppi Logan, and the New York Art Quartet, and then withdrew from the commercial scene. He decided to play the New Music for "the people on the block". Joe remembers their first real job together "was with Don Pullen on piano and Arthur Williams on trumpet at the Renaissance Ballroom in Harlem. I think Arthur Doyle was playing tenor sax on the gig too." The group, always with a core of at least 2 saxophonists from Arthur, Joe and Hugh Glover, who Milford met at 1964's October Revolution, confined their activities to the Black community, winning over ordinary listeners to a music that was regarded as "way-out" and "extreme" in the jazz world. Sometimes all 3 saxophonists played together producing a sound that can only be imagined. Unfortunately, no recordings of this awesome gathering have ever emerged.

   

Even when gigs were thin on the ground "we rehearsed 1 to 3 times a week". And "Milford didn't like band members fraternizing with women, and I always went against that rule ! But he's always coming up with something to keep you interested. He connects with stuff you didn't know was there, then you hear it and that's like the way it's always been."

    

These were volatile years. The music seemed inseparable from the politics of the time. "Milford's groups played for a lot of political events. I met leaders... H. Rap Brown, Ron Karenga, Stokely Carmichael and others. Angela Davis was also around a lot of the music. A little later I dated a woman who was a Black Panther. I met Eldridge Cleaver, Bobby Seale and was in the audience when Huey Newton was released from jail. There was a party for him in North Philadelphia. All I remember is that he wasn't such a good public speaker, but he did have some very good ideas. In 1969, I was president of the Black Students' Union of Bronx Community College. When Kent State University's security guards killed a student, we were the second college to close in sympathy, after Kent State itself. This caused a ripple effect that closed most schools across the country. I'm very proud of my involvement in that protest."

     

"Milford played a lot in the community. We played a lot in Harlem. Rockland Palace and the Renaissance Ballroom were just some of the venues. The people were very receptive, and we were playing music that fit the period."

     

In 1972, Milford featured Joe and percussionist Raleigh Sahumba with Frank Lowe on tenor, in place of Arthur Doyle who was putting together his own trio. They played at Slugs' Saloon as part of the first New York Musicians' Jazz Festival. T he city was awash with new music. Joe also appeared with trumpeter Chris Capers at Studio We.

      

By 1973, Arthur Doyle was suffering a nervous breakdown. "We were friends when we played with Milford, but we never really hung out together. Milford tried to make it a competition thing and, to a degree, he was successful, but Arthur and I were always ok. At the time, Milford seemed to prefer him over me. I think the fact that Arthur could be unstable is what did him in with Milford." Don Pullen had long since left to play in organ trios before swinging the Charles Mingus Workshop. Milford played with Arthur Williams, Hugh Glover and Joe at the Newport in New York festival in 1973, and in Europe, before returning to the shadows. There was the occasional gig, one in 1976 at Fordham University with Joe and a recovered Arthur Doyle, but mostly they  took place in the basement of Milford's home in South Jamaica, Queens. In 1997, Milford, Hugh and Joe emerged into the light, once more, to great acclaim at New York's Vision Festival. Nevertheless, "to this day, Milford has always told me that I sound too much like Coltrane. But he was my influence, and I'm proud of that. Until recently, he wanted another saxophonist along with me." Joe's not too sure  why Hugh's no longer part of the group, but "he had obligations with his family, and it was hard for him to rehearse." Lately, Milford has been recording his and Joe's heartbeats and incorporating them into the performance. Even now the group hasn't been recorded. Joe is a man who lives for music, but these occasional gigs with Milford, albeit unique and incredibly stimulating, could never be enough. Playing with Milford is like the icing on Joe's musical cake.

    

When asked to name his heros, Joe replied "my parents, Milford, John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy and McCoy Tyner, and, although I'm a Catholic who doesn't go to church often, I do believe in a higher being". And if he could pick just one musician he would most like to have played with, "that would be Louis Armstrong".

     

Joe was once described as "the spectacularly ambitious Mr. Rigby with his myriad reeds and flutes". Perhaps, not surprisingly, Mr. Coltrane had something to do with this too ! "I started exploring the saxophone family almost immediately after hearing Coltrane play the soprano. I was attending Hartnett School of Music in Times Square. I didn't hear Trane's first night at the Jazz Gallery after he left Miles. Some of the students went, and the word was that he was playing soprano. I did go the second night and I was blown away ! I got a soprano. and then I wanted to play the alto. The baritone and sopranino followed. I think each horn has its strengths and weaknesses, my weaknesses of course. I feel that there's a time and place for each sax. I got the sopranino when a music store salesman made me an offer I couldn't refuse, because he wanted to move the instrument."

    

"I had someone give me a C-melody but then, in a couple of days, they realised that the instrument was worth something, and they took it back. I've never had the desire to play the bass sax. I did try to trade my then Selmer baritone for a bass clarinet, but it wasn't an even trade, so I declined. I tried a bassoon for about 3 months, but my heart wasn't in it. I would like to try the bass clarinet again."

    

And which of all the instruments is his favourite ? "I would say the tenor sax is my favourite, but at times it can be the alto or, when I was playing the blues, it was often the sopranino". Of course, Joe isn't the only afficianado of the whole saxophone family, "I talked briefly to James Carter, who might just be my favourite saxophonist at the present time. I think he's fantastic. I only know Michael Marcus through Ted Daniel, but I'd like to meet him too."

     

Living in New York enabled Joe to immerse himself in the music. "My most memorable concert-going experience is between seeing Trane at Olatunji's in Harlem, and Freddie Hubbard with Herbie Hancock at the Beacon Theater. I also can't forget seeing Coltrane with Booker Little at the Five Spot. It was in between his leaving Miles and forming his own band with Steve Kuhn, Steve Davis and Pete LaRoca. I was fortunate to see John Coltrane perform at least 200 times, and most of those performances were noteable. And I must include Ornette's first New York concert appearance at Town Hall. Carmen McRae opened the concert, and Ornette and Dizzy played together. Sonny Rollins playing live at Lincoln Center was also tops."

    

Although Joe grew up surrounded by the sounds of hard bop, he couldn't miss the emerging new sound. "I became aware of the New Music, probably because of my associations with Milford, Pharoah Sanders and Steve Reid. The Cleveland contingent was happening. There were the Ayler brothers, Mustafa Abdul Rahim, Charles Tyler and some folks I've probably forgotten. I remember playing with Norman Howard once at a jam at Steve Reid's house, so I have fond memories of the days with the great Cleveland musicians. During his association with Milford, Albert Ayler showed me how to play harmonics in a room at the Theresa hotel in Harlem, while Fidel Castro was staying there too. Pharoah had a big band in which I played, with Frank Lowe and Frank Wright as well." During Pharoah's early, scuffling, years, he and Joe even played together behind the wicked Mr. Wilson Pickett.  And speaking of powerful performers, Joe also played beside David S. Ware in Andrew Cyrille's Maono. Little wonder he developed his own sound, strong enough to stand with anyone. 

   

"Ornette's music had virtually no impact on me originally. I did, however, know how important he was right away, but I didn't really listen to him until the 80's and the 90's." Joe first heard Sun Ra with his Outer Spacemen in 1962 while working as a waiter at the Cafe Bizarre on 3rd Street. "I was not really a Sun Ra fan, but John Gilmore was excellent. If he had left the Arkestra he would definitely have been one of the innovators of the music. I remember later how some of Ra's musicians like Marshall Allen and Pat Patrick were recruiting people to come to Philly to live in Ra's brownstone and just play music. Ronnie Boykins in particular made a concerted effort to draft me. Ronnie was a terrific bassist who I played with a couple of times with Steve Reid." And another great tenor saxophonist made a strong impression when Joe caught Charles Mingus Workshop, " I liked Booker Ervin a lot. I always thought he had his own distinctive sound. I was exposed to him before Trane and Rollins."  

   

Joe feels his major artistic achievement to be "my friendships and musical sharing experiences with Milford, Pharoah, Carlos Garnett and Eric Dolphy, who turned me on to one of my teachers, Garvin Bushell." While a major performance achievement was with Ted Curson's band where he was able to develop more continuity in his phrasing. "Playing with Ted, who hired me over David Murray, made me concentrate more on my phrasing because I was playing alongside legends like Bill Barron and Nick Brignola. It's called growing up or, better yet, the maturation of the Rig ! Both Bill and Nick played with such beauty and drive, I had to listen more to what was coming out of my horns. Bill Barron was sensational, and a very nice person always willing to help in any way."

    

"I have worked with some dynamite drummers, amongst whom have been Andrew Cyrille, Mohammad Ali, Rashied Ali, Milford, Billy Hart, Beaver Harris, Barry Altschul, Rashied Sinan, Steve Reid, Lou Grassi, Rashid Bakr, William Hooker and probably a few I've forgotten. And I would have liked to play with Edgar Bateman,  Al Foster, Denis Charles, Paul Motian, Buddy Rich, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes and Max Roach !"

    

The so-called "Loft Era" opened up many opportunities for the practitioners of the New Music to play, even if there wasn't much money involved. Sam River's Studio Rivbea opened in June 1972. "I did a lot of gigging there, and Sam gave me all the freedom I needed. I had the pleasure of playing with Sonny Sharrock there." Other musician-operated lofts incuded Artists House, the Tin Palace, Studio We, Ali's Alley, the Brook, the Ladies' Fort and Studio Wis. Not only were the lofts leased by the musicians, they also made up a large part of the audience, supporting each other, even working the door. And if one musician got a grant by filling in the right bits of paper, others would benefit too from the gigs that followed. Sometimes a group could last for years, sometimes just the one gig. And, of course, rehearsals were abundant. Besides the names Joe has already mentioned, there were other important associations.

    

Ted Daniel's Third World Energy Ensemble, "Ted gave me the opportunity to be one of the main contributors in his band. Very often, he had close to 20 musicians in the ensemble. We have remained good friends ever since, and I can say Ted is probably my closest friend, along with Milford Graves."

    

The Master Brotherhood included  Steve Reid, Ahmed Abdullah, Les Walker, and Arthur Williams, "my best musical friend until he died of what was called a drug overdose. Whether that was true is a matter of speculation. Arthur had distanced himself from his friends and even his family. I remember talking to his sister, who didn't know the extent of his addiction until his death. The Master Brotherhood was a fantastic group of young musicians. We played a lot of Brooklyn gigs. We all got along very well with no ego trips. One of the group that didn't record with us, but was an important member was bass clarinetist Mustafa Abdul Rahim."

     

Carlos Garnett's Universal Black Force, "Carlos and I were friends too, in the 70's to early 80's. We had a mutual admiration for each other. I think he's back in New York now [from Panama] and sometimes performs at the Lenox Lounge in Harlem, though I haven't seen him yet."

     

Charles Tyler's New World Ensemble, another big band, but "it was more usually a sextet when I was in it. The only time I had a problem being a sideman, was with Charles. He tried to tell me what instrument to play, and when to play it. We almost came to blows. As you know, musicians aren't fighters... We talk a good game... I don't usually have a problem being a sideman, but a lot of leaders don't really know the intricacies of what it takes to lead, so you have to be a co-leader."

   

Finally, thanks to Rashied Ali, early in 1978 Joe got the chance to lead his own group, which he called Dynasty, at Ali's Alley. He brought in a powerhouse band with Marty Cook, trombone, Amina Claudine Myers, piano, Jerome Hunter, bass and Steve McCall on drums. No less than Stanley Crouch reviewed a subsequent gig, saying "Rigby plays a lot of saxophones but the tenor is his instrument. He played solos that swung, shouted, made brilliant uses of harmonics and built with an ordered and swelling passion that let you know he is an important voice, in any direction.... I will always remember the way Rigby walked off the bandstand and remained audible as he traveled through the audience, inventing and swinging with an ecstatic mastery." But somehow Joe wasn't able to break through with this group. "There were no recordings with Dynasty. I didn't really know how to do a press kit etc., and that cost us some bookings. I never applied for a grant, although I should have.  A change in personnel also happened with Joe Bowie on trombone, Sonelius Smith, Brian Smith and Rashied Sinan coming in."

    

By the end of the year, the golden era of the lofts was coming to a close. As suddenly as the lofts had opened, they began to shut down. "I think a lot of the lofts got tremendous increases in their rents when they became popular, so the musicians who ran them lost their leases."

   

But as one set of venues disappeared, others emerged. Soundscape, the Squat Theater, Tier-3, Hurrah, Irving Plaza, CBGB's, though some of them were aimed at the new sounds of punk, funk and No Wave that were emerging on the pop scene. There was also a short-lived new synthesis in the New Music. Just as 25 years before, when bop musicians had looked for a closer connection with the blues and a soul feeling and hard bop had been born. This time round it was the turn of the New Music, perhaps influenced by Ornette Coleman's electric Prime Time or the emergence from James Chance's backing group of Joe Bowie and Defunked (soon to be Defunkt). The connections were blues, funk and rock, reflecting the influences of James Brown and George Clinton, as well as a desire to reach a bigger audience. Major players included Joe Bowie, Luther Thomas, James Ulmer, Oliver Lake, Ted Daniel, Henry Threadgill, Steve McCall with LeftHand Frank on a blues tip, Arthur Doyle and Beaver Harris with Rudolph Grey riding No Wave.

    

But only Joe Rigby did it for real, and did it for keeps. "Johnny Copeland's manager Dan Doyle got in contact with me because he wanted a saxophonist who didn't sound like most of the blues saxophonists, whatever that means. And Johnny gave me all the freedom I needed too. I think that the experience working with the blues bands of Johnny, and briefly with B.B. King, was fantastic in making me the musician I am today. B.B. hired me to replace his baritone sax player for 3 gigs at jails. I didn't want to just play the baritone so I left." Through the 80's, Johnny Copeland, who played a searing guitar as well as singing, enjoyed a surge of popularity. But this was not a good time for jazz musicians, and there were many casualties. Some managed to survive by entering the education system. And Joe eventually followed suit, going back to college and slipping almost completely off the jazz radar screen. There had been some good gigs. Playing with Jaki Byard was a highlight. At one point, "Hannibal talked about getting a group together, but it never happened."

    

"I graduated in 1989 and a major turning point for me was when Russell Simmons of Def Jam Records offered me a job with his company. It would have involved a lot of travel, and I was a newly-wed, and chose to become a New York City teacher instead. For basically 14 years I diminished my individual goals while I was teaching. I was pretty much off the scene in terms of performing. Even though the Def Jam job was hip hop, I would have been more connected with the music scene than I was as a teacher of grades 6, 7 and 8. I don't regret the decision, but it would have been interesting to see what would  have happened."

    

Well, Joe might have become a millionaire, or he might have ended up in jail, or both, like Death Row's Marion 'Suge' Knight ! His boys would most certainly have been impressed. "My sons, all four of them, are into hip hop. At the time that I might have worked for Def Jam, I wasn't into hip hop, and I'm not now, although I listen to it." Not that that's prevented a lot of people making money out of it. But Joe adds that "one of the reasons why I left the teaching profession was because I felt I couldn't reach my students as effectively as I should, because I couldn't relate to their music."

    

There was still a little happening during these years. "I was gigging around with a woman harpist called Karen Strauss. And I was part of a group called 'the Teachers'. We were all teachers, and not too bad. I also worked with a couple of pop singers who had high hopes but didn't manage to reach stardom. And before appearing at the Vision festival in 1997, Milford, Hugh and I performed at the Knitting Factory. Over the years, I've played a lot of wedding gigs. They paid the bills very often, but I can't sing at all. I was never tempted to be a studio musician. I've known a few who've made an excellent living, but I never explored it".

    

Nowadays, Joe can dedicate himself totally to music. But what does he do for relaxation ? "I relax by practicing my horns, especially the flute. The other week I had the opportunity to sit down and talk to Yusef Lateef and his wife, at a wedding. The man is 85 years old and has all his faculties. He is a beautiful human being. Things like that float my boat."

     

And outside music, "my passion is animals. I love cats and dogs in particular. But when I was in Florida, I was extremely troubled by the amount of construction in the State. That means animals are being displaced and that really bothers me. Also my passion is my sons and their children. And my cat Jazzy, who's the keeper of my house. She's the boss !"

    

Sports are another interest. "I've always liked boxing, but I don't follow the lighter weights. I'm disturbed that the Heavyweights aren't as exciting as I would like. I also like football, basketball and baseball.My favourite teams are the New York Giants, the New Jersey Nets, and both the Yankees and the Mets, but if they're not winning, I turn on them ! I actually like the New York Jets more than the Giants, and I've been a Net fan since they had Julius Erving".

     

If he couldn't be a musician, Joe says "I'd be an actor." But Samuel L. Jackson needn't lose any sleep, Joe's commitment to music is total. And his passion isn't just confined to jazz. Ask him about Bettye LaVette, and he'll speak about this great "forgotten diva". Try him on Bjork and he'll tell you he "likes her music and her style". He'll listen to the most minimal Detroit techno of Monobox (aka Robert Hood). "It's all music. I wish there weren't the divisions between, say, hip hop, salsa, world music etc." It's doubtful there's a more rounded musician in New York.

    

Speaking of New York, Joe is one of surprisingly few jazz musicians actually born in the city, though most make the trip eventually. "I love New York... Saying that, and the fact that I've been there most of my life is all the more reason why I would love to live somewhere else ! I would like to live in Paris, or possibly Amsterdam or Copenhagen. The avant garde seems to get more notice than it does here, but the fact that I don't speak the respective languages would stop me. That gets me to think the U.K. would be more feasible. In the U.S., California might be an option, but I was disappointed in the jazz scene there."

     

It seems unlikely Joe could ever leave New York. He has a voracious appetite for music. Not just playing, but attending concerts and gigs. He could be seen at most of the recent Vision Festival. And, of course, he listens to records. His current favourites include "a lot of 60's Miles Davis, new stuff from Sonny Rollins, Gary Bartz, Antonio Hart, Roy Hargrove, James Carter, and George Adams. I also love Arthur Blythe's sound and ideas." 

    

As far as his own music is concerned, the different approaches he uses, depending on whom he is playing with, are a constant stimulus. "The contrast of playing spontaneously [with Milford], and playing a more structured format is something that I really like. I don't hardly think of myself as a be-bopper, but one of my favourite play-along Jamey Aebersold books is a Tadd Dameron volume that I really enjoy playing. That is full of be-bop, and I find my alto sax can handle the up-tempo tunes. The tenor is ok, but the alto is faster. I do think that the fact I like to play both [free and structured] is, or could be, a way of critics saying I don't really have a definite style. But I feel that kind of [open] approach to my music. And playing with Johnny Copeland made me really appreciate, and like to play, the blues".

      

"I am trying to develop my own sound. I've always concentrated on [having] my own sound. It comes from playing alongside Bill Barron, Arthur Doyle, David S. Ware, Pharoah and a few others I'm forgetting ; Carlos Ward and Carlos Garnett too."

     

Moving on to recent events, "I'm trying to get a working group that are willing to stick together through thick and thin, much like David S. Ware's quartet. It won't be easy, but I'm optimistic. I've played a couple of gigs with Roy Campbell. One was the closing of CBGB's jazz series. I also played with a quartet of Ted Daniel on trumpet, Ken Filiano, bass and Lou Grassi, drums. We had a few gigs. I want to add a piano. Then I went to Florida to play on a cruise ship. I belong to a web-site, Musicians Contact, and I was contacted on a trial basis by a cruise line. But they want you to sign a six month contract... that's out of the question." 

     

"I came back just in time to fly to London  and play with Steve Reid at a club called Cargo. The gig went well. We were warmly accepted by a primarily 20's to 40's age group. That comes right behind a Newport Jazz Festival performance with Milford Graves in 1968, and a Bard College gig with Beaver Harris, Dave Burrell and Jimmy Garrison as my most memorable performance ever. I guess I prefer performing in concerts, but in November 2005 with Steve we toured the UK playing rock clubs, and that was a very positive experience. We played on a couple of occasions for more than 1200 people. I'll be in Porto and then Milan with Steve, and he's planning a trip to Africa in the fall."

    

"I'm working with a pianist, Chris Chalfant, playing with a trio of Ken Filiano and Lou Grassi, a singer who has a recording contract, and Milford.  I'm also working with Rashid Bakr's group with Mark Hennen. Roy Campbell and I have talked about playing some more together, but that hasn't happened so far. I'm also playing with drummer William Hooker's group. I might even be doing some things with Cecil Taylor, who I saw recently. And there's my own group, which now looks like being Charles Eubanks on piano, Hill Green, bass and Warren Smith, drums. Maybe there'll be a trumpet too. I've just had a rehearsal with Ted Daniel and Charles. It went well. I'm going to rehearse my group at a studio run by Nasheet Waits, who went to school with my oldest son."

    

All that says that there could be a couple of recordings this year. "For quite a while, I've wanted to present my own music, but I haven't found the right opportunity. My success would be to be able to be heard. I just found out that there is a record on Utech of a performance I did at the Stone in January. This is an unauthorized recording as far as I'm concerned, since I didn't know it was happening. It was with Ras Moshe. You might have trouble telling us apart. Ras has just appeared at the latest Vision Festival, and I wish him well. He seems to be on his way, and I feel very good for him."

    

It would seem, after all these years that Joe must have a lot more than one recording in him. "I've written a few new tunes. You know I'll have to do one [recording] focussing on the New Music. And definitely a blues. I absolutely love ballads and standards. I would love a live recording. I'm okay with focussing on all my instruments. The baritone and the piccolo are the horns that I don't have as much confidence as I do in the others. I try to practice every day. I keep a record so I don't neglect any of my instruments. I'm also working with all these different groups. Right now, I think my music is stronger than ever."

    

In conclusion, Joe wanted to say "what sustains me both artistically and personally is that through my life, I've had people who have shared their love with me, not necessarily in a romantic sense, but that helps too. Love is what propels us all. That has kept me going, and will in the future. I have never given up hope in a musical sense. The artistic achievement I feel best about is in the future, but I am very glad to have my health and my ability to play the music that I love. I am a strong individual, and I thoroughly believe in my ability to reach people musically, and I will do that."

    

"My ultimate goal as an artist is to play music that makes the listener want to hug the person next to him or her and tap their feet. If everyone were exposed to music, I do believe the healing aspects of music could take over our doubts and fears. The bottom line is that people can save people... We just have to want it, but war is big business, at least in the United States."

     

"I want to lead my own groups, playing music that I choose, but also open for any of the band members with their input. I want the public to know that I am a survivor and a world-class musician who needs to be heard."